[HAM] Overdrive

[Kon Zissis]

Hi Scott and everyone.
 
Scott Hawthorn wrote:
>To me, this is a gross generalization, based on your review of
not-very-many organs and also on supposition. 
>Further, just as an anecdotal example, I have a 1968 B-3 in my shop
right now that, while nice and hot, is not 
>particularly "bright"  or biting-sounding. It's just right, for my
taste. I have also heard "wax-cap" organs that have >plenty of "bite."
 
When I say ''bite'' I do not mean a horrible shrill sound , instead I
mean the brighter sound and the overdrive  characteristic  that the then
new wax capped organs and also the red mylar capped organs had  as
opposed to the current mellower  sound of the pre 1964 organs with aged
wax caps in them. Most of the red mylar capped organs  that I have
played sounded OK and not too shrill and some wax capped organs that I
have played  sounded clear and  bright. 
My own 1962 C3 with the red mylar capacitors tray transplanted from a
1970 T-300 sounds quite nice and smooth now that I have recalibrated the
whole TG. As a learning experience I have tried out a few different TG
output curves with my C3  and some of these previous TG curves sounded
very shrill or honky  but now I have a much better sounding TG curve
with a warmer bass and midrange and a smoother upper midrange and
treble.
 
Kon wrote:
>  If a pre 1964 wax capped tone wheel generator is recapped , then it
will again produce more or less the original factory > stock sound  with
more bite. 
Scott replied:
>I repeat: without using the original factory methods of matching cap
values to individual tuned reactance filters, there >can never be a
restoration of "factory sound" except by sheer luck or bad hearing. I
especially object to the term >"original factory  stock sound," when I
have heard more than one re-capped organ that sounds like dog shit, and
I know >plenty of others who have heard the same unfortunate results.
 
I say '' more or less'' when saying that recapping will more or less
restore the original  factory stock  sound because recapping  will
produce an approximation of the original factory sound because a
recapped organ should sound  closer to the original factory sound  than
a wax capped organ would ( thus ''more'' ) but this may not necessarily
be an exact identical recreation of the original factory  sound because
we do not know what the exact mfd value of the wax caps used was when
they were new( thus ''or less'') . It would be clearer what I a mean if
I wrote that recapping will ''approximate'' the original factory sound .
I understand that  you cannot get an exact  recreation of the original
factory sound unless the new capacitors selection was done in exactly
the same way as it was done at the factory. 
 
I am 35 years old so I have  not heard any wax capped organ when it was
new but I have been corresponding privately with other list members who
were around when the Hammonds were new . One person told me that he
tried out new B3 or C3 organs in the shop and they all sounded different
with  some sounding warm and fat whilst others sounded thin and others
sounded dull. A tech wrote to me that he also remembers that the
Hammonds sounded different with  some sounding good  and others  not so
good. This raises the possibility that some  recapped organs  might
sound  like bad  or shrill  not so much because of a badly done
recapping job but instead because the TG might possibly have been
sloppily calibrated at the factory  and thus  sounded bad  or shrill
when it was new  and now that it has been recapped , it again sounds bad
or shrill. Al Goff wrote that all the organs  went through the final
Quality Assurance listening  test at the factory  and  most organs
sounded  OK , some sounded  absolutely perfect  and a few sounded bad.
 The following is just my own hypothetical assumption but I assume that
the factory Quality Assurance tests were done with  the darker sounding
Hammond Tone cabinets like the PR-40  and an organ that sounds too
shrill  through a Leslie 122 / 147 etc   may not have sounded so shrill
and bad through the darker sounding PR-40 cabinet  thus it was one of
the few ''bad eggs that escaped ''. 
 
>My complaint here is that your statements are highly theoretical and
not based on much real-world experience.
 
I have been learning more about these things and I am willing to accept
correction if my knowledge is incorrect. Here in Australia  the Hammond
organs are  rare but I have played over twenty wax capped and red mylar
capped and recapped Hammonds and they all sounded somewhat different.
Amongst the best sounding Hammonds that I have played is Ray Vanderby's
( Cosmic Nomads leader and organist ) recapped 1959 C3. This C3 has been
recapped with the generic  brown  coloured 630 volt rated polyester
0.220 mfd and 0.1 mfd  capacitors . The TG output curve shows the dip in
the TG note 49 to 54  output levels because the 0.220 mfd caps are below
the correct mfd range somewhere in the nominal 0.255 mfd  region.
Despite this , Ray's C3  sounds warm and not shrill. One list member
describes the sound as being ''very bluesy'' and Ray Vanderby describes
the sound as being ''creamy''. My own modified and recalibrated 1962  C3
now sounds ''creamy'' without shrillness. I do not like the shrill or
the honky type of sound.
 
I am interested in learning about the way that the tone wheel generators
were calibrated because this is a very important reason why some
Hammonds sound great whilst other Hammonds sound mediocre or worse. I
like collecting the measured TG output levels data and sharing it around
to whoever is interested. Several people have kindly sent me the TG
outputs of  their organs . In my TG spreadsheet  there are the  measured
TG output levels of  around fifty organs including seventeen  Hammonds
that I have played and measured myself. The seventeen organs that I have
measured include a wax capped 1937 BC , an early 1950's wax capped B2 or
C2 TG  , a recapped 1959 C3 , several wax capped and red mylar capped
C3's from the 1960's , a wax capped 1960's B3 , a wax capped 1962 A105 ,
a red mylar capped mid 60's A105 , two early 60's wax capped RT3's , an
early 70's red mylar capped R-124 , a 1966  red mylar capped  L-111 , a
1971 red mylar capped porta-B  , a 1968  red mylar capped T-100 and a
1970 red mylar capped T-300. This 1970 T-300 sounded like' doggy pooh''
with a thin nasal shrill sound but after I recalibrated the whole TG it
now sounds nice and fat. Two weeks ago I was given a very good condition
wax capped 1963 L-102 for free and tomorrow I will be picking up a
trashed 1969 red mylar capped L-100 series organ and I will measure the
TG output levels of these two organs and add the data into the TG
spreadsheet.  The now outdated version of the TG spreadsheet is
available on Hammond Wiki and after I have finished  updating  my own
copy , I will send out the updated  TG spreadsheet to Hammond Wiki and
to those who have requested a copy. 
 
 
>Another annoying counterintuitive idea from me: I love that sound (
Abraxas ) too. But to me, it sounds like any utterly >stock Hammond
played very loudly into a Leslie. Very ordinary. I think you are chasing
moonbeams.
 
Yes Gregg Rolie's  Abraxas album  organ does sound to me like  a stock
B3 played loudly through a stock overdriven Leslie 122 or 147  and it is
indeed  a very nice sound and the whole album is a great  example of
soulful organ playing. I assume  that the analog recording techniques of
that time and the tape compression  effect would also be an important
factor in creating  that great sound as heard on the album. A few days
ago I heard the 1970 ''Allman Brothers live at the Fillmore ' album and
Gregg Allman's overdriven B3/ Leslie  had a nice mellow character
different from the more raw sound heard when  listening to an overdriven
Leslie 122 / 147 etc and I assume that the recording techniques are
important factors in  helping to create Gregg Allman's  mellow sounding
overdrive sound. Another album from that era with a nice sounding
recorded overdriven Hammond / Leslie  is the Chicago Transit Authority
album.
 
>Something else you kids need to think about:
>Not that uncommon-- there could easily been something wrong with the
organ, Leslie, or both.
 
I cannot verify if this is a fact  but I have read somewhere that Gregg
Rolie liked using old beat up Leslies  that distorted easily , probably
from being played at full volume for so long that the Jensen V21 and the
bass speaker  had deteriorated and become dirty sounding and the valves
or the output transformer were wearing out.
 Al Goff once wrote on Hamtech that a few of his  customers got him to
''burn in'' some good condition Jensen V21's so that they sounded  like
they were old  and worn out with a dirty sound.
 
Mike Casino wrote:
>I think Kon has the most "detailed publicly shared" real world
experience so
>far that I know of at least since the year 2000 when I started to get
>interested in this online. 
 
I appreciate  being freely given data and information and I like freely
sharing what data I have with whoever is interested. It would be great
if the people who actually worked at the Hammond factory and who know
the correct specs and data for things such as the factory  TG
calibration  output levels, the  full details about  the correct
capacitor matching procedures etc were willing to publicly  disclose
this information  so that the facts will be on public record  and we
would not have to endlessly speculate about these things. People with
authoritative knowledge  about these things such as John Hanert and Alan
Young are either dead or they are growing old and after they have died
this  knowledge  will be lost. 
 
All the best. 
Kon